# Setext headers and empty list items **URL:** \ **Category:** Spec\ **Created:** [April 30, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://talk.commonmark.org/t/setext-headers-and-empty-list-items/1173 "2015-04-30T20:34:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 14
**Author:** ![douginamug](https://talk.commonmark.org/user_avatar/talk.commonmark.org/douginamug/32/2284_2.png) [@douginamug](https://talk.commonmark.org/u/douginamug)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2021, 1:54pm UTC](https://talk.commonmark.org/t/setext-headers-and-empty-list-items/1173/14 "2021-07-17T13:54:56Z")
Hello all! I hope bumping this thread is the right thing to do, despite its age, since it’s the exact topic I wanted to bring up 🙇‍♂️ I recently opened an [issue on Hedgedoc](https://github.com/hedgedoc/hedgedoc/issues/1441#issuecomment-878598241) about this _‘empty, hyphenated list-item Vs. h2 setext’_ issue. The maintainer also initially thought it was a problem on their side, but then realized it was conformant with commonmark, so opened an [issue on Commonmark](https://github.com/commonmark/commonmark.js/issues/222). The argument for setext only requiring one `-` or `=` for single-character titles does make sense. However, the argument for setext requiring multiple `-` or `=` is that it would solve the list/header issue, and would be arguably closer to Gruber’s description: > Markdown offers two styles of headers: _Setext_ and _atx_. Setext-style headers for `

` and `

` are created by “underlining” with equal sign **s** (`=`) and hyphen **s** (`-`), respectively. (emphasis added) This description, which arguably cites multiple `-` or `=`, appears to be backed up with the examples some lines later: ```auto A First Level Header ==================== A Second Level Header --------------------- ``` In contrast, [Commonmark example 83](https://spec.commonmark.org/0.30/#example-83) states: > The underlining can be any length With respective examples of h2 and h1: ```auto Foo ------------------------- Foo = ``` Furthermore, as mentioned in the first post, the [Commonmark 0.30 Specification, 4.3 Setext heading](https://spec.commonmark.org/0.30/#setext-headings) still states: > If a line containing a single `-` can be interpreted as an empty list items, it should be interpreted this way and not as a setext heading underline. While it might be argued that… ```auto Foo - ``` should still be interpreted as an h2, I believe interpreting… ```auto - Foo - ``` as an h2 is interpretation too far, and goes against the ‘readability’ maxim. In conclusion, I: - **generally support** requiring multiple `-` or `=` for setext headers, and - **strongly support** indented, hyphenated list items not being interpreted as h2 setext header underlines for parent list items. --- _[View the full topic](https://talk.commonmark.org/t/setext-headers-and-empty-list-items/1173)._