# Enumerated lists without explicit number, ATX headings with explicit number **URL:** \ **Category:** Spec\ **Created:** [January 2, 2016, 10:38am UTC](https://talk.commonmark.org/t/enumerated-lists-without-explicit-number-atx-headings-with-explicit-number/1951 "2016-01-02T10:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 10
**Author:** ![tin-pot](https://cdn.commonmark.org/user_avatar/talk.commonmark.org/tin-pot/32/810_2.png) [@tin-pot](https://talk.commonmark.org/u/tin-pot)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://talk.commonmark.org/t/enumerated-lists-without-explicit-number-atx-headings-with-explicit-number/1951/10 "2016-01-02T20:40:28Z")
> [@Crissov](#): > > I disclosed that grammar for informative purposes only, to show my mental model of “simple markup languages”, because you seemed confused by my notion of an anonymous pseudo-attribute. It’s not the reason for proposing “naked” . and ) line markers. Ok, and yes: I was in fact confused by your use of the term “attribute”, which has a well-defined meaning in the context of XML, and also is used in the _CommonMark_ specification with the exact same meaning. You are of course free to name a non-terminal in a concrete syntax “`attribute`” (a perfectly reasonable name!), but don’t expect everyone to understand that you mean _this_ from now on when you say “attribute” 😉 – But I think I see now where you’re coming from, thank you. * * * But I still can’t quite follow your argument > […] less cumbersome than keeping track of the correct number (e.g. when changing the order) and their setup doesn’t automate list generation.One purpose of CM/MD is that it’s easy to type by hand without dedicated tools. I’ve been writing “CM/MD” for years now, most of the time using “tools” like _Vim_ (some times through the _[“It’s all text!”](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/its-all-text/)_ or _[“External editor”](http://globs.org/articles.php?lng=en&pg=2)_ _Mozilla_ add-ins, which I do warmly recommend), but often—right now!—I just type into an HTML _text area_ the old-fashioned, stone-age way. And not _once_ did I miss the ability to re-number items in an ordered list there (but I **do** this regularly in _Vim_, using a filter in “`:%!`_command_” and similarly). These two (personal) ways of typing _Markdown_ text correspond IMO to two (objective) roles one can assign to the _Markdown_ text as written: 1. _As just a vehicle to get the content into whatever form is wanted_: that’s what I’m doing right now, hacking into the `commonmark.org` _text area_, and wrestling as always with the shi^H^H^H capricious _Markdown_ parser used here. 2. _As a plain-text document of its own right_: the _Markdown_ syntax was designed with this in mind (too), and one can in fact format _Markdown_ text in a way that the “source code” is quite clean and readable: that’s what I’m commonly aiming at when writing in _Vim_, and this includes operations like reformatting paragraphs (line breaking and indentation), using UTF-8 instead of _character references_, renumbering sections and list items, and so on. You seem to assign **neither** role to your text: on the one hand, you complain about the “counter-intuitive” look of some part of the syntax, but on the other hand you decline to use the perfectly clean and intuitive-looking alternative (out of laz^H^H^Hconvenience or lack of proper tools). You said nothing about “continuation lines” or line breaking: do “sloppy” lines (as allowed in _Markdown_) look “intuitive” in your mind? Why would you be content with the one (line format) but not the other (item numbers), seemingly lacking any tool to improve any of this? Do you ever use _section numbers_ in your section headings—without any support from _Markdown_? * * * This reminds me of [this discussion here](http://talk.commonmark.org/t/use-escaped-space-as-nbsp/1907) about introducing the _backslash-escape_ sequence “`\ `⎵” (ie REVERSE SOLIDUS followed by SPACE) to denote NO-BREAK SPACE in _CommonMark_. Typing “` `” or “` `” (let alone using a decent editor, or a simple pre-processing step like global search/replace) just seemed to be unacceptable for the original poster. --- _[View the full topic](https://talk.commonmark.org/t/enumerated-lists-without-explicit-number-atx-headings-with-explicit-number/1951)._